Curse

DarkNecrid · May 27, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

"Any good monk can outlast an assassins chain and be away from him and have plenty of time to kite before next chain."

maybe if it was 1v1 but I heard this was a team game with other skills??? There's going to be more than just the 1 sin who magically strolled up to you no matter how much you kited collapsing on you, knocking you down, etc.

No.

I'm throwing up a couple of additional PvP only updates in a minute.

nekopowa · May 27, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Realms of gods and other content-wise updates/modifications you mentioned - yes plz! That is brilliant.

Can't really comment on skill balances since i'm not bothering myself much with them anymore.

Good job on the post.

DarkNecrid · May 27, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Thanks.

Version 1.1 is now up, changes:
*Added new PvE skills in the PvE only skill update section. These are old skills removed because of PvP balance issues...
*Added VoD changes.
*LoS for Shadowsteps.
*Made AoM cost 10 energy, since its now an Elite Assassin's Remedy, I think that's fair.
*Changed Ether Nightmare a bit. Now is 4 instead of 2 points of energy lost, recharge increased.

Version 1.2 coming Soon(TM) will feature:
*Added Ranger/Ritualist/Warrior PvE changes.
*A couple of changes to PvE mesmers.
*A couple more PvP skill changes (very minor though!)

Tyla · May 27, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Tune down BHA a little for PvE!

And I also suggest making Nat Stride the same duration as Escape in the PvP Ranger bit, also changing Mending Touch to scale with Protection Prayers.

DarkNecrid · May 27, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Oh right I also updated Ether Nightmare so it wasn't PEWPEWPEW because I'm dumb and misread the recharge time XD! I also changed the recharge times of the Shadowsteps to reflect their different recharge times in-game.

cool ideas imo

toastgodsupreme · May 27, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

You nerfed probably the main reason why paragons are even considered for teams (SY + TNTF).

Seriously, outside of guild parties, I've never partied with a Paragon.

Let them have those skills as they are. Personally I don't care since my para is a storage char now. But you boosted just about every other pve skill but nerfed those two.

Quote:

Mimic: 15/3/10: Spell. Learn the last skill used by target ally. For 20 seconds, Mimic is replaced by the skill you learned. You may use the skill once.

What?

15 energy, 3 second cast, and you can only use the copied skill once? What's the point?

DarkNecrid · May 27, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

You nerfed probably the main reason why paragons are even considered for teams (SY + TNTF).

PUGs are dumb. Paras are imba even without SY + TNTF. This is pretty much a GIVEN. Unremovable party wide buffs are good all around. SY +TNTF removes the need for monks though. Like....completely. You can just SY+TNTF+SoR everything with 8 paras.

Quote:

What?

15 energy, 3 second cast, and you can only use the copied skill once? What's the point?

The point is that it was made back in 2005 before the game went live. Obviously now there'd be something better to it, but I haven't decided what that is yet. I was thinking of adding "You may use the skill once at the attribute the ally used it at last" clause.

Konig Des Todes · May 27, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

One of the ancient dragons who is probably going to rise and own us in GW2 has his body in Elona. There's ancient dragons everywhere, so I think it fits!!

Excluding Kuunavang, as that is a "Young Ancient Dragon," all of the Ancient Dragons known are in the continent of Tyria, The closest dragons to Elona, which are not in Elona, are the Orr Dragon, Deep Sea Dragon, and The Desert Dragon*in the Crystal Desert, which might even be the Water Dragon in the Charr Homelands*. So it doesn't really fit.

Anyways, the non-skill suggestions you make are a nearly full-proof good addition, that I see, and will cause no QQ from people. The skills, many are over-powered, and even with making the Monsters harder, it is not good. If your skill ideas were put in the game, we would at least know what NOT to do, which many people do not seem to get. If skills don't work out by being too imba, then they will get changed back. That simple.

DarkNecrid · May 28, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

If you're not going to be constructive, don't post, above 2 people. I've told you many times why Shadowsteps are overpowered, as have a couple of other people who are in top end PvP, and you're an Assassin, so if you can't realize that then thats not my problem. :/

FlamingMetroid · May 28, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

If you're not going to be constructive, don't post, above 2 people. I've told you many times why Shadowsteps are overpowered, as have a couple of other people who are in top end PvP, and you're an Assassin, so if you can't realize that then thats not my problem. :/

yes, shadowsteps are overpowered, but making them completely useless along with all of the other viable assassin builds, doesn't do anything for the class.

DarkNecrid · May 28, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

yes, shadowsteps are overpowered, but making them completely useless along with all of the other viable assassin builds, doesn't do anything for the class.

Assassins would still be viable at splitting man. There's more to a game of GvG than just killing the other person, and I think this is a thought lost on some people now.

FlamingMetroid · May 28, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Assassins would still be viable at splitting man. There's more to a game of GvG than just killing the other person, and I think this is a thought lost on some people now.

viable example pl0x.

The fact that you nerfed [shattering assault] shows how little you know about the assassins abilities other than killing.

snaek · May 28, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

while these skill change suggestions r more intelligent than most on these forums...

its still lacking in many ways

DarkNecrid · May 28, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

"Mommy, my head hurts."

Didn't we have a guy a month ago post "How to fix Guild Wars"? Did he not die in unholy Net flames?

Oh, and good way to limit a class. "Assassins would still be viable at splitting man." As if limiting to instagib weren't bad enough, now lets make them impotent unless they travel in packs.

Man, for all the time you took doing this, you could have.....gone to college?

(I like how you assume my age)

It took 3 hours to type. At 12 at night.

Show me a college that has classes at 2 in the morning, and I'll show you the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

viable example pl0x.

The fact that you nerfed [shattering assault] shows how little you know about the assassins abilities other than killing.

AoD sin seemed to of did a pretty good job of splitting and always has, everything else is just way better right now.

Shattering Assault was because of 4v4.

Assassins are meant to kill things, however Shadowsteps are abused to all hell. It removes kiting if used offensively, defensively it can be the best kiting power in the game (Return), remove Aftercast (Shadow Walk), etc.

It's abused by secondaries more than the primaries, which in itself is pretty not good.

60 seconds in itself isn't that much of a nerf, to be honest, except in the lower level areas. It's enough to perform your goal, and escape. You'll have to wait a bit before you can get the crippling boost it gives you offensively, but that's not much of a problem really, if you're going after NPCs. If you're going after players, make sure to use it wisely. You'll have to be more careful with how you use it, and when. Sins would still take it (hell, I know a ton of people would) simply because even at 60 seconds the massive benefits it gives a player outweighs the negatives. I bet you if Tyla played with that balance, and was a sin, he/she would still take a Shadowstep. It's a given.

However, a lot of secondaries would steer away from them. As a WoH monk that 50-60 second Shadowstep is no longer looking that hot in 4v4/8v8. As a AoM derv that 60 second shadowstep isn't that hot anymore, it'd be best to take something else...

Because secondaries don't particularly need Shadowsteps to do their job, they can just help them sometimes do it a lot easier.

If anything, possibly add a new function to Critical Strikes that lowers the recharge time of Shadowsteps by 2s per rank (which brings most of these down to ~40.) but even that isn't needed.

Next to Paragons, Shadowsteps are probably the most broken mechanic in the player's hands right now.

I, for one, do not believe in letting overpowered things stick around just because it's what makes a class "stick". That isn't even the case here. An Assassin is more than just Shadowsteps.

Shayne Hawke · May 28, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

NEW:
New PvE Only Skills:
Gotten at Destiny's Challenge for 1 Skill point and 2 platinum, these are new skills for every class! (These are old skills, that were removed because of balancing issues for PvP etc. With the split, this is no longer the case!)

/agree with costing skill points, but instead of paying cash for them, I'd suggest paying with points earned through winning battles in Destiny's Challenge.

Also, for all skills, you seem to not mention their attribute lines. Some are self explanatory, but I think you should list them later anyways.

Quote:

Assassin:

Marble Trap: 5/2/30: Trap. When Marble Trap is triggered, all nearby foes are knocked down, and if they are holding an item, they are Dazed for 4...9...10 seconds. Ends after 90 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.

Twisted Spikes: 5/2/30: Trap. When Twisted Spikes is triggered, all nearby foes suffer from a Deep Wound and begin bleeding for 3...13...15 seconds. Twisted Spiked ends after 90 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.

Marble Trap sounds fun. I think Twisted Spikes is a little too overpowered.

Quote:

Shadow Tripwire: 5/2/30: Trap. When Shadow Tripwire is triggered, all nearby foes become Crippled for 3...13...15 seconds, and you Shadow Step to that location. Shadow Tripwire ends after 90 seconds. While activating this skill, you are easily interrupted.

It sounds weird, but I think the enemy should shadow step to the caster. The way it's set up now could ruin a dagger chain.

Quote:

Dervish:

Balthazar's Fury (originally: Rage): 10/.25/8: Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, your attacks deal fire damage, When this Enchantment ends, all adjacent foes are set on fire for 1...3...3 seconds.

Dwayna's Fury: 10/.75/20: Enchantment Spell. Lose all Enchantments. For 30 seconds, your attacks deal lightning damage. When this Enchantment ends, all adjacent foes are Weakened for 4...9...10 seconds.

Difference in skills in bold. Make both skills the same - either both cause enchantment loss, or neither do.

Quote:

Boon of the Gods: 5/1/30: Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, Spells you cast cost 1 less energy for each Enchantment on you.

Add a minimum cost of one. I was going to say to remove the elite status, but something else would have to be done in order to prevent it being stacked with other Dervish elites that give energy.

Quote:

Elementalist:

Energy Font: 5/.25/10: Enchantment Spell. Remove all enchantments. For 15...51...60 seconds, you gain +2 Energy regeneration. Energy Font ends if you move.

Makes me lol. I can't even think of a use for that except reducing energy woes between battle, and then you still have to stand still.

Quote:

Lightning Storm: 25/3/30: Spell. You invoke a Lightning Storm at target foe's location. Each second for next 10 seconds, one foe in the area is interrupted and stuck for 14...61...73 lightning damage.

The reason this was ejected was because Air was not meant to be seen as having AoE effects the same way that Fire does. I was going to cry "IMBA!!11!1," but then I saw that it only interrupts one foe. Possible need to place Exhaustion on this skill.

Quote:

Mesmer:

Borrowed Energy: 15/1/5: Enchantment Spell. Steal up to 4...9...10 Energy from target foe. For 30 seconds, you are enchanted with Borrowed Energy. When Borrowed Energy ends, you lose 4...9...10 Energy. (I'd make it 10...25 though.)

Don't play Mesmer, so I don't see the true intention of this skill. The fact that you can cast again before it ends makes me question how it would work. Would you lose the energy after the 30 seconds anyways, or could you postpone that by recasting?

Quote:

Confusion: 15/2/20: Hex Spell. For 8...18...21 seconds, target foe's attacks may damage any character in range, including the target.

"any character in range" would mean adjacent foes, right? Or, in the case of Rangers and Paras, would that means anyone they could strike? Seems a little quirky.

Quote:

Mimic: 15/3/10: Spell. Learn the last skill used by target ally. For 20 seconds, Mimic is replaced by the skill you learned. You may use the skill once.

Seems like a joke of a skill unless the enemy has a skill disabled. I would like to see it disable that skill on the enemy for 20 seconds, or until the caster uses the skill.

Quote:

Monk:

Cry of Lament: 15/1/5: Spell. All party members are healed for 10...34...40 Health. If any party members are dead, Cry of Lament heals for an additional + 5...53...65.

I'd like to place stress on the bold part.

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Summoner's Soul: 10/1/10: Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, you gain 5...41...50 Health whenever a creature dies.

I'm worried about it being maintained indefinitely.

Quote:

Recurring Scourge: 25/5/10: Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe has -1...3...3 Health degeneration. Whenever that foe is healed, this hex is reapplied.

Cost/casting time seem horrifically long. I wouldn't mind so much if I'd get assurance that any gain in health, uninclusive of health regen, causes this to reapply.

Quote:

"Forge The Way!": 5/0/20: Elite Shout. For 5...17...20 seconds, target other ally gains 25% movement and has +40 additional armor.

Dur-d-dur, I thought this was going to replace ["Make Haste!"] until I remembered it was elite. It's still something to consider.

---

Overall, I think that having more skills like that, as long as they aren't all elites is a nice addition.

Edit: I missed the rest of them apparently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Ranger:
These don't have icons because they are already in use by other skills. make new ones.
*Call of Brutality: 10/0/55: For the next 30 seconds, attacks by your animal companions have a 5...41...50% base armor penetration and deal + 1...11...14 damage.
*Call of Disruption: 10/0/55: Shout. For 30 seconds, attacks by your animal companions have a 5...41...50% base armor penetration and have a 8...18...20% chance of interrupting spells when they hit.
*Call of Elemental Protection: 10/0/55: For the next 60 seconds, your animal companions have 1...11...14 base damage reduction and gain 20...30...32 armor against all elemental damage.
*Call of Feeding: 10/0/55: Shout. For 60 seconds, your animal companions have a 1...11...14 base damage reduction, and gain 5...17...20 health when their attacks hit.
*Call of Ferocity: 10/0/55: Shout. For the next 30 seconds, attacks by your animal companions have base 5%...50% armor penetration, and your animal companions attack 25% faster.
*Call of Healing: 10/0/55: Shout. For 60 seconds, your animal companions have a 1...11...14 base damage reduction and regenerate 1...3...4 health each second.
*Call of Resilience: 10/0/60: Shout. You purge your animal companions of all hexes and conditions.
*Call of the Hunter: 10/0/55: For 60 seconds, attacks by your animal companions have a 5...41...50 base armor penetration, and your animal companions have 1...11...14 base damage reduction.
*Call of Vitality: 10/0/55: For 60 seconds, your animal companions have a 1...11...14 base damage reduction and + 50...234...280 health.

Just glancing through, I see lots of repeat effects. Some of those skills probably don't need added, and there are already some skills out there that can perform some of those tasks, if only to a lesser extent.

Quote:

Ritualist:

Accelerated Growth: 10/1/45: Enchantment Spell. For 15...51...60 seconds, your spells that target corpses and summoned creatures cast 5...41...50% faster.

Love it. More power to Ritbombers!

Quote:

Weapon of Mastery: 10/1/45: Elite Weapon Spell. For 15...51...60 seconds, your attacks use channeling magic instead of your normal weapon attribute.

Absolutely inferior to [Spirit's Strength]. You would still need to spec in the proper attribute line to get the base weapon damage or to use any of that line's skills. As a result, you're still doing the same point split as SS, but you put out just a few more crits/damage/whatever instead of having a flat-out increased damage boost.

Quote:

Warrior:

"Aim True!": 5/0/20: Shout. All nearby allies are affected by Aim True for 5...9...10 seconds. The next attack by each affected ally cannot be blocked.

The functionality sounds familiar to something. Not sure if I'd rather let Paragons have this or not. Needs to affect all allies within earshot.

Quote:

"Don't Believe Their Lies": 10/0/30: Shout. Hexes on other allies in the area have their durations reduced by 50%.

Duration not listed. I suggest that it affect all allies within earshot.

Quote:

"With Haste!": 5/0/20: Shout. For the next 5...10...11 seconds, all allies in the area attack 10% faster.

Isn't this just like one of the Paragon ones but without the early cancel?

Edit #2: I'd like to run an idea by everyone about shadowsteps that I just dawned on.

Move all shadowstep skills back to their original duration. Also, make them all cause exhaustion.

Hyper Cutter · May 28, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

yes, shadowsteps are overpowered, but making them completely useless along with all of the other viable assassin builds, doesn't do anything for the class.

He's doing to assassins exactly what most PVPers want done to them, I'm afraid...

DarkNecrid · May 28, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

The reason this was ejected was because Air was not meant to be seen as having AoE effects the same way that Fire does. I was going to cry "IMBA!!11!1," but then I saw that it only interrupts one foe. Possible need to place Exhaustion on this skill.

It's not AoE, per se. Yes it's an Area of Effect, but it's more or less a damage over time.

Quote:

"any character in range" would mean adjacent foes, right? Or, in the case of Rangers and Paras, would that means anyone they could strike? Seems a little quirky.

Confusion worked based on the stuff, so if they do a physical attack, anyone in range of a sword. A flare? Anyone in range of the flare.

Quote:

Seems like a joke of a skill unless the enemy has a skill disabled. I would like to see it disable that skill on the enemy for 20 seconds, or until the caster uses the skill.

It targets ally, my friend.

Quote:

. You would still need to spec in the proper attribute line to get the base weapon damage or to use any of that line's skills. As a result, you're still doing the same point split as SS, but you put out just a few more crits/damage/whatever instead of having a flat-out increased damage boost.

Actually, it says attacks, not attack skills. So, afaik what it would do is basically use Channeling Magic as your weapon attribute, so if you had 16 channeling and was using a sword you'd have "16 swordsmanship." I think.

Quote:

Duration not listed. I suggest that it affect all allies within earshot.

It didn't have a duration! It's an instant effect.

EDIT:
@ Shayne: Thanks for being one of the few actually contributing good posts. I enjoyed reading it.

Quote:

Only read your skill suggestions - all bad.

Thanks for reading only half of it, being very unspecific, and ultimately contributing nothing to the topic.

Quote:

He's doing to assassins exactly what most PVPers want done to them, I'm afraid...

Making them more balanced?

How dare they.....

EDIT:
If you can give me a good (read: 2-3 paragraph) post on why Shadowsteps are not overpowered and should not be nerfed all around, that is written intelligently and with obvious knowledge of the game and is not misinformed, I will un-fake (since...yknow...this isn't going into the game any time soon) nerf them.

Konig Des Todes · May 28, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

You need to even out the amount of "new PvE-only" skills that you add for Destiny's Gorge. There are too many Ranger skills, only one monk? huh? I suggest only 2-3 per profession. Over-all those new skills could use tweeking, but look ok. I still suggest you stay out of the skill area of what to change though, some are good, many bad, all would effect GW in both good and bad ways.

Tyla · May 28, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Judging from Shayne Hawk's post, I see you've dug up the old skills that weren't implimented.

DarkNecrid · May 28, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

You need to even out the amount of "new PvE-only" skills that you add for Destiny's Gorge. There are too many Ranger skills, only one monk? huh? I suggest only 2-3 per profession. Over-all those new skills could use tweeking, but look ok. I still suggest you stay out of the skill area of what to change though, some are good, many bad, all would effect GW in both good and bad ways.

I only took skills that were removed from betas, so there's not much I can do. Ranger's saw a lot of change from Beta Prophecies to Release, Monks didn't.